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Motorsport Manager Flaws?

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Motorsport Manager Flaws?

Postby peronakov » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:02 pm

This is a game long awaited by the general Motorsport manager community. It was almost 20 years since the last management game Grand Prix World, and before that there were plenty of managers like Grand Prix Manager 1&2, F1 Manager Pro, Team F1 and so on in a period of couple of years. After so many years I eagerly anticipated the game, and here is my view on it.

It is a very solid game with great engine, interesting in-race decisions and looks like a very solid base for development in the next couple of years. I expect many new features to come. But for now, the game doesn't feel like a realistic-simulation management game on par with Football Manager, it looks more arcade-styled manager like EA Football managers in the past. I believe that this is intentional so the game can gather bigger and younger crowd, but for me it is not a plus. It also has lots of little bugs that makes it flawed.

Here are some things that I find missing from the game:

- Negotiations with Engine, Fuel and Tyre suppliers, Sponsors?
You just can't have Motorsport manager game without any of these things. Everybody has the same engines, fuel and tires (apparently?) and the only development option is to upgrade the engine by yourself?! Sponsor negotiations is non-existent, you just get approached by three random sponsorsa and you choose the one that pays the most money per race.
I expected Grand Prix World style negotiations, where at the start of the season you begin talks with potential suppliers and sponsors and as the negotiating process goes on, you get information about the possible deal. You try to get Customer, Partner od Works deal for Engine, Fuel or Tyre, you negotiate with Team sponsor and minor sponsors, merchandising etc. Also, sponsors deal are usually for the whole season, not just for couple of races.

- Part development:
You develop a part, and that means simultaneously design and manufacturing it. And you only make 1 (one) copy, that is it. You want the same part again? Well you have to spend the same amount of money and the same time to make another one. In reality, you first design the part, then if you like it you can manufacture it in the quantities that you want, limited by the time your engineers have to manufacture it. If you don't like the gains from that design, you can scrape it and try to design it again, hoping for better results.

- Testing (or working on the Simulator):
You need to have testing or simulator work so you can improve your car and driver performances. Now you just tell the designers what to work on and that is it. There is no chance that the planned improvement doesn't work as expected, or that some bright designer idea (randomly) makes you superior idea.

- Car setup
Not interesting at all, you have no input in it. You could implement a system like there is on the internet browser game BatRacer. You get initial info about the characteristics on the track (low downforce, high downforce) and you have for example 4, 5, 6 runs with each driver (each one requiring different final setup) to get it right. The range is from 1 to 100 and you start at 50 and gradually lower or raise the numbers at every car part in order to get the setup right. Drivers with high feedback give more precise info than drivers with low feedback. You can randomize the numbers for the same track so they are different every time.

I'm veteran Manager player and I was partially involved in the very early stages in the GPRM Project.This is what I miss the most from Motorsport Manager, post something other if you miss it.
peronakov
 
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Re: Motorsport Manager Flaws?

Postby JayOTT » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:22 pm

Most of what you're saying does carry merit, particularly the realism comment as the little things like drivers being OP, and mid-race engine repairs, can take away from the immersion. Nonetheless, I have put together a few counter-arguments.

peronakov wrote:- Negotiations with Engine, Fuel and Tyre suppliers, Sponsors?
You just can't have Motorsport manager game without any of these things. Everybody has the same engines, fuel and tires (apparently?) and the only development option is to upgrade the engine by yourself?

The game does have something like this at the end of each year. When you're designing the new chassis for next year, you have to sign deals with engine, fuel, brake and material suppliers, all affecting your chassis stats (the engine supplier can also boost your engine ratings). It's not as in depth as it could be, but they didn't just forget about this. And keep in mind that everyone has the same tyres (Pirelli) in modern day F1, as well as in GP2 and GP3.

For sponsors your argument is solid. I did say in my review that this element was a potential let-down and if PlaySport ever make a sequel it's probably an area they need to expand upon. They have some good ideas but the negotiation process needs improving.

- Part development:
You develop a part, and that means simultaneously design and manufacturing it. And you only make 1 (one) copy, that is it. You want the same part again? Well you have to spend the same amount of money and the same time to make another one.

I always just saw this as an abstract representation of the full testing, design and manufacturing process that comprises the full 'development race' that takes place in formulas that allow teams to develop. Though you do have a fair point about the unrealistic element of only getting one copy of any part you build. Also, I think you'll find that building/upgrading the test track and/or simulator at your HQ will be beneficial in terms of improving your car and drivers.

- Car setup
Not interesting at all, you have no input in it. You could implement a system like there is on the internet browser game BatRacer. You get initial info about the characteristics on the track (low downforce, high downforce) and you have for example 4, 5, 6 runs with each driver (each one requiring different final setup) to get it right.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is... I was under the impression that the set-up process does work mostly like this already in MM. Perhaps you can clarify why you feel you have no input?

Overall I can admit that Motorsport Manager has some flaws, but I do worry that you may be looking for ways to nitpick the game rather than just having fun with it. Feel free to counter-argue some of the things I've just said however if I failed to convince you.
JayOTT
 
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Re: Motorsport Manager Flaws?

Postby mansellsmoustache » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:51 am

- Negotiations with Engine, Fuel and Tyre suppliers, Sponsors?
You just can't have Motorsport manager game without any of these things. Everybody has the same engines, fuel and tires (apparently?) and the only development option is to upgrade the engine by yourself?! Sponsor negotiations is non-existent, you just get approached by three random sponsorsa and you choose the one that pays the most money per race.
I expected Grand Prix World style negotiations, where at the start of the season you begin talks with potential suppliers and sponsors and as the negotiating process goes on, you get information about the possible deal. You try to get Customer, Partner od Works deal for Engine, Fuel or Tyre, you negotiate with Team sponsor and minor sponsors, merchandising etc. Also, sponsors deal are usually for the whole season, not just for couple of races.


This is what spoils it for me. GPW is, like you say, hurtling towards being 20 years old and yet this game can't even come close to replicating this crucial part of any motorsport management sim. The game is nicely done and packed full of potential but unless they flesh out the above I won't be purchasing any future dlc / sequels. I raised it more than once on the steam discussion forum and the response was almost universally one of don't care/doesn't matter. That's a crying shame.
mansellsmoustache
 
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Re: Motorsport Manager Flaws?

Postby Jops » Mon May 22, 2017 6:07 pm

I really enjoy the game but for me it's just far too easy. First season started as the fake Force India and managed to win (albeit thanks to a lucky safety car). Once you start scoring points it's easy to develop parts, and as the base of your best carries over to the next season, you're better off towards the end developing a few highly illegal parts with ridiculous performance and next year they are legal...

Funnily enough GPRM had the best part development, you had 2 designers and would choose what part you would want, what you wanted the focus to be. I.E:
I'd want a new diffuser, they are good for big time gains, so i'd ask for them to focus on downforce, i'd also ask them to develop one with more downforce and less drag. And one with less weight.

They would develop concurrently with testing, starting off with a vague laptime improvement I.E 0.3, now the weight only part is only showing 0.04 so I discard that to save resources, the others being 0.3
Over time i might find that the first part would weigh 1.5kg more, but be worth 3 tenths, the other 0.3 more and worth 0.2 If my car is light I could discard one and carry on finalising the other to production.

You could do this with loads of parts, if you were Toyota and money was limitless, you could develop about 3 of every part at the same time, Minardi you'd have to be really focused and careful with your developments, if something looked slower it might be worth carrying on rather than losing the money to research and design before test (often tests could show a big difference to the theory).

Driver negotiation was harder, on this game it frustrates me nothing happens before the end of the season and there are no driver histories!! I want a full GPW style, I wanna know how many wins Hulkenburg has and how many fastest laps and titles (I believe it;s about 20 wins and 1 title, got crap after he joined a cult..)

Engine suppliers I agree it's not the same, again GPRM had a great concept for this and sponsors where you negotiated and took them to races, designing a new car was a year long process, you could choose to be risky and redesign it which would take longer, meaning your new car probably wouldnt be ready until Feb, or play it safe and aim for small improvements.

MM has so much potential, and I do like their race engine, but I want a sim not an Arcade game.

To this day GPRM is low-key the best I ever played, just couldn't get the season to season stuff working, so you'd play one amazing season then come Jan it would crash.
Jops
 
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